General Discussion

[#1]

Hi.

1) I have a T400

2) Previously i had a T61p

3)There is major flex on both left and right side of the keyboard. The centre seems fine. I bought the laptop about 2 months ago. The video that is posted on the youtube describes exactly the type of flex i have in my t400. 

How do i got about solving this problem?

Thanks.

[#2]

I've got a new W500 4062-36U no WWAN and I too have the left side keyboard flex as demonstrated in the video.  Typing on the left side also produces a hollow echo sound not present on the right side.  I'd very much like to have this issue resolved as I'm otherwise very pleased with this notebook.

I'm not interested in sending it in for repair, I will only consider a part(s) replacement I can perform myself or a complete machine replacement.  I absolutely refuse to get a week old machine repaired :-)  I have not contacted customer service about this...  I've just been patiently waiting for a course of action from this thread.  I do hope this is resolved soon as I may need to RMA this thing and pickup a used t60p or something...

I've owned many ThinkPads over the years...  T60p, T41, et. al.

EDIT: actually, I can't remember the models I've owned...I think it was actually a T42 and T61 or something...  either way, the keyboard on this W500 is pretty aweful.

Thanks,

mjb

Message Edited by antmo on 12-01-2008 08:46 AM

[#3]

I have posted on this before and have something new to report:

I had spoke to Lenovo's customer issues level 2 team who had promised to send out a T61 replacement keyboard. We double checked the part numbers and confirmed the NMB version's number (don;t have it in front of me but I can get it). After about two weeks of waiting I received a brand new keyboard that was marked with multiple part numbers. Upon inspection it was obvious this was the exact same keyboard that was already installed in my W700. 

So let's just make this stupid fricken' mess simple:

If you look at the underside of the new keyboards they are full of holes and look like swiss cheeze. They are so flimsy that if you hold one by either side the keyboard will bend under its own weight. The T61 keyboards have A SOLID METAL BACK PLATE. It is amazing to me that Lenovo can't seem to "get this" after all the discussion that's been going on about this issue for more than FIVE MONTHS now.

I will request the correct part AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN until they finally realize that it is cheaper to get it right than waste my time and their money. This is a simple fix that has been made ridiculously complex by assigning multiple part numbers from what were once different parts to the same part. 

It also means that for people who already own a T61, if you ever need a replacement keyboard you me well be sent one of the new craptastic flexible ones instead of the solid-backed version that probably came with your machine.

Everyone unhappy with their newer Lenovo keyboards should call support and ask for replacements. This is an absurd waste of time and totally unacceptable.

Oh, and another thing I have noticed typing on the W700 with it's crappy keyboard is that the little finger on my left hand (the left side of the W700 keyboard sinks, flexes, rattles, and thunks) has become sore. I have never experienced anything like this with any Thinkpad I have ever owned in the past.

[#4]

Erik,

How widespread is this issue?  Though Mark has said that the issue is "understood", there are no other details that could indicate how frequent this is. 

I wonder, since the new keyboard design is meant to rely on a stiffer chassis, if the issue is not so much with the keyboard itself, as with the chassis.  In that case, I wonder, are there also different chassis manufacturers, and some models that are more problematic?  I also wonder if it has to do with what accessories are being used.  For example, if I have an ExpressCard in the slot, does that make that side of the machine a bit more rigid?  I currently own a Toshiba Tecra M5, and I notice that if I take out both PC cards, that I do get more flex in the machine, and if I remove the DVD drive and replace with a plastic filler, I get more on that side too. 

Also, curious, do you know if all the manufacturer's of the newly designed keyboards have the same flex issue?

Message Edited by jeffsteinbok on 11-30-2008 06:12 PM

[#5]

New keyboards on the T400, W500 and W700 lines at a minimum. The keyboards are more open backed with a webbed metal backing and thin plastic film over that. The older keyboards have a more solid back. The subframe, if you look at Lenovo service videos clearly show that where people report flex and other issues those areas are open directly underneath and show minimal support amounting to in some cases just small squares of foam. With a very thin keyboard design this is apparently not enough.

Those that have received the older solid backed T61 keyboard as a replacement have reported that the flex and rattle issues went away. That would seem obvious given that a thinner more flexible keyboard when laid into a frame with very uneven support is going to flex more than a solid-backed (or more so) keyboard.

I'm waiting for Lenovo to send me one of these to prove it on my W700 which has terrible flex on the left side. This uneven response has also strained the small finger on my left hand which sinks unnaturally when striking many keys and that seems to irritate it. I have many Thinkpads and only on the new W700 do I experience this keyboard issue.

This is a no-brainer Lenovo-- listen to the customers that know and care about keyboard quality and the user experience or  ignore the  problem and lose market share over time as your products lose one of their most important qualitative distinctions-- the typing experience.

[#6]

I'd like to know how wide spread the issue is as well.  I just ordered a T500 2081CTO and found this thread after the fact.  I hope to god the keyboards are fixed.  Like many of us up here, I've owned a Thinkpad since the beginning...even the butterfly 701    Right now I have a T60P and was hoping the T500 finally represented something of an upgrade.  But this keyboard issue is disconcerting to say the least.

Mark, if I have an issue, will you be able to facilitate a keyboard exchange for me to the T61 keyboard?

[#7]

So I ended up calling customer service and they claimed there was no documented fix for this and they can not send me a replacement part from another thinkpad model (i.e. T61).  They directed me to try to re-seat the keyboard and the only other thing they can do is send me another W500 keyboard.  So...  I'm hoping there will be an official replacement I can do very soon...

I'm definitely keeping this machine though, since it is far and away the best notebook I've ever owned from any manufacturer (I've had many from Apple, Asus, HP and Dell in addition to older IBM thinkpads).  Aside from this keyboard issue, which is small in comparison to issues I've had with Apple and Dell in the past, it is exceeding my expectations.

mjb

[#8]

Well I'm a huge Thinkpad fan but I cannot in good conscience keep the machine if my T500 has the flex keyboard issue AND Lenovo won't send me a T61 NMB replacement keyboard.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed it is a non-issue on mine.  But I think Lenovo will be less likely to fix the issue at the factory if we accept such mediocrity.  Keyboards are one of the main reasons many of us started buying Thinkpads so long ago...and kept right on buying them. 

[#9]

How the heck do I send a PM on this forum?  Do I need a minimum number of posts?

[#10]

jeff,

i can't quantify in any specific detail how widespread (or not widespread) this issue may be.   reports are mixed and this isn't 100% a "flexy keyboard" issue as many think.   if it were that simple then we'd see a fix by now.

thinkpad4me,

you should be able to send a PM after reaching the next user rank.   if you're trying to send mark details on your system then i will make sure he sees your post.   apologies for the inconvenience.

update:  mark has read your PMs.   you should have received responses from him by now.

Message Edited by erik on 12-02-2008 01:38 AM